|
www.thataudioguy.net had the sheer pleasure of interviewing the softly spoken mastering engineer Adam Dempsey at Deluxe Mastering one afternoon after many attempts to get the interview underway and many fails! This author had broken down cars, broken down cameras, finally we got there, and it was well worth the wait!
A video of this interview is available for your viewing here: http://www.thataudioguy.net/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=61&task=videodirectlink&id=58
That Audio Guy: Adam, your philosophy, your mix philosophy, your ethos I guess, with dealing with musicians and the stuff that they have actually recorded, because it's very close to their hearts. How do you deal with them?
Adam Dempsey: You just made me think, I've got a book at home called 'Everything You Need to Know About Philosophy', and it's the thickness of my finger (laughs). Look, essentially there is a team of us here, and we all operate on the premise that it's about the music and the client, and we just do whatever it takes to make sure we can get the best, and if that best means telling the client, diplomatically – hopefully they are attending the session – that there are things that need looking at, then we'll do that as well.
Also a big part of what we offer is an assessment and we we try – which is what I believe is a main part of mastering – to make an objective, fresh assesment. And I mean assessment more than 'judgement', as I said I like to have the client involved.
So it really comes down to having a really unflattering, accurate monitoring room, by which we can make decisions without compromise, with no second guessing, and when we make it sound as good as we can in here, it should translate.
One example, this morning I was having a client in who had some serious issues with a couple of mixes, whether it be bottom end or kick, on one track it was the phase of the guitar... We were able to fix that through getting hold of a couple of different mixes from his mix session, which he brought in with him. We loaded them up in "tools" and checked them in mono and just made sure there was no damage being done, 'cos initially the lead guitar was disappearing in mono, it sounded like a tape out of azimuth1. If you don't know what that means, it has a left/right delay and things just cancel, severely cancel, in mono. So we were able to totally fix that and save the whole session, with him being able to be here, and hear it for himself, as it's a good learning experience for him as well.
We're into being really open, it's not a "black art", there's no magic myths, it's just "let's show you what we're listening to", listening in a really accurate room, and work from there and try to incorporate any subjective artistic decisions the client might have while they are here as well.
That Audio Guy: So essentially, what you are saying is that whether they be from the top of the industry or the bottom of the industry, you are dealing with them in the exact same fashion. You guys have dealt with some amazing artists, just being out there (reception/chill out room of Deluxe has all their album credits, etc) having a look at some of the credits that both you yourself and Tony (Jack the Bear) have, you have dealt with the top echelon of the industry. On a personal note, I have actually brought my own demo in (Present Day Theory) from my own band and been told by Tony, "Perhaps you should go back and have a look at the mix" and it was one of the more awakening experiences about my own mixing. When you're mixing in what is essentially not a very controlled environment, like a lot of us have, it's difficult to make a call on the bottom end, and this room is just amazing (for that). We were listening to Pink Floyd just a moment ago, and just at low volume, it's crazy.
Adam Dempsey: Yes, there is a lot to be said about monitoring at low levels as well, but like I said, it's not an "embellished" sound; what you hear is just very honest, and if there is an issue, you'll hear it, you'll pick up on it straight away.
I think one of the greatest issues is the people who are less than experienced, mixing from home, (not) checking their mixes in mono. And the other major aspect of what we do is correcting for any inaccuracies in the mix room, so if they're mixing from home, or in a less than ideal room, usually it's the bottom end. It might be a case that they are not hearing a lot of subsonic stuff, and there might be an abundance of that, we bring it in here (and you can hear it) or it could be be the kick drum, but it may not be whole kick itself, it just might be the bottom end of the kick. There are always other ways of hearing it, and just coming in and being able to trust what you're hearing, and for us to hopefully not have to rescue things.
I'm a bit of a purist, every job that comes in is a clean slate, and it's just a case of "whatever it takes", and hopefully that "whatever it takes" is not too much.
That Audio Guy: You would tend to hope so.
Adam Dempsey: Yeah.
That Audio Guy: Probably most like yourself, I've been to mix sessions that will go 10 hours plus, and you're sitting there trying to find a certain problem, you're going in and out of, say, 4 seconds of audio trying to find an issue. Now how do you combat you're ears getting tired? Because honestly, myself, as most of you know i'm a live engineer, chiefly, and I do find that between sets I put my earplugs in, to give my ears a rest. How do you find yourself combatting that issue, as I find myself that things end up sounding quite one dimensional if I have been mixing for too long (without resting).
Adam Dempsey: You've got to keep fresh, you've got to take rests. I work at a pretty constant monitoring level, as most mastering engineers do, I think it's between 80 and 85 dB SPL from the working position, taking regular breaks. I'll EQ at that reference level, but then generally run the track through quite softly, always checking in mono, always checking softly. There's a lot of things you can do to keep it fresh, Taking regular breaks and not having a late night the night before.
I used to do a bit of live sound mixing as well, and you just can't do it if you're working the next morning.
We do this because we love it, and we wouldn't be here any other way. I just love hearing great music, I mean, we're lucky to get a lot of amazing varity of acts, and Melbourne acts as well, as I said, we don't favour whether you're signed or independant.
My background, initially, was in public radio as well, so I support independant radio and independant artists.
This morning I had some guys in who were the winners of the Triple R Radiothon competition this year, so I was happy to help them out, and just go over their 5 tracks. We do it because we love music.
As far as I am concerned, and I know it's the same for Tony as well, if you're coming here with your tracks, and it sounds good, and we can tell you've put you're heart and soul into it, it's kind of an honour – and I don't mean to sound a bit soppy here – but we really do appreciate working with people who have that creativity, and that mindset to really make something out of nothing.
That Audio Guy: Absolutely! So are you an analogue man or a digital man?
Adam Dempsey: Predominantly analogue, and a lot of people will agree with me, we just find it sounds better. When I say that it doesn't necessarily sound cold, it doesn't mean necessarily warm, it's a bit of an over-used term, but maybe "musical" is the word.
We've got a couple of Sontec equalizers that are the real work horses, and they just really make things sound like a record – they were made for making records, everything is repeatable, there is nothing in the (signal) path unless you want it to be. A lot of the gear is custom modified for mastering or purpose built for mastering.
Plugins? I just generally don't have a lot of need, unless it's a really problematic mix, and then again, if that was the case, we would try and circumvent that and address the mix first. Always.
So unless there's no other option, or the client has to run with that particular mix, it might be that the bottom end or the subsonics might be a bit too dynamic [read: too dynamic, not merely too strong], in that case I might use a low band compression, or de-essing if something is a bit sharp in the midrange, but generally not much in the way of plugins.
We've got a custom console, so we're able to switch everything in or out as need be, but we're also able to match the source, so whatever comes in, we can level match it, and constantly reference back to the source mix to ensure we're on track. I really enjoy, for example, with a client sitting here on the "couch of comfiness" [it is really a comfy couch! ed.] and being able to simply compare and say "this is where we're at, this is where it was", but then level match it and help them hear as well without being tricked by discrepancies in the volume.
That Audio Guy: Just, I guess, more an industry type question, rather than your specific industry, but I guess the music industry at large, is the "loudness war" still occuring? As far as American style mastering versus old school English style mastering, and the english style mastering of old being more dynamic. Is that still occuring with people walking in saying "I want the loudest record on the radio"?
Adam Dempsey: I find, personally, I can really only speak for myself, but the clients that come to see me tend to want to retain the life in their stuff, and it's unsolicited comments as well. It happened again this morning and I said "where are we wanting to go?" and really tuning in to "do you want us to really tread lightly, or are you after a certain direction with the sound of this?", and they were deliberately wanting to keep the life in the tracks. I said "That means it's going to be softer and you're going to have to turn it up", and they said "yep, that's exactly what we're after".
I recently wrote an article on soundzoo about this, about the level wars, but also the fact that the issue really has been over done, it's been talked about, and people are pretty tired of it but yeah, it's still happening, but it always was happening even with vinyl records – the art of getting a nice loud cut. The question is how loud can you make it for a certain mix, how does the mix sound? Is it really loudness you're going for, or the agressive quality of certain types of compression, or a really transparent compression?
That Audio Guy: I've always thought with radio transmission, and I know with what we do with the web broadcasting, it's compressed, then there is another level of compression, then you might use one of the aphex boxes compressing certain bands, then finally when it's transmitted, there is another level of compression. I completely agree with you as far as the issue has been over done, but I was wondering if it was actually still occuring (considering the press it's received) and apparently people are actually caring about their music, rather than slamming it!
Adam Dempsey: And radio is really a moving target, so really it's a myth when it comes to radio. All things being equal, a master with a lot of life that just sounds good, it's going to sound better on air than something that's been crushed, especially going through, easily, an additional 6 to 7 stages of processing.
The way I see it, generally I've never heard anyone complain that Dark Side of the Moon was too soft.
That Audio Guy: Absolutely not!
Adam Dempsey: You can't cater for all radio stations, they all sound different, even different at different times of the day. If there is clipping in the mix [or mp3 artefacts], then that can really be highlighted.
That Audio Guy: I did read on your website that you guys do a fair bit of vinyl mastering, or mastering for vinyl, is that something that is being called for (regularly) within the industry? I know myself if I can find an album on vinyl, I will search for, find it and get it. I just think it sounds better, personally. With some of the smaller bands, are you finding it's becoming more of a trend?
Adam Dempsey: For me it's a regular thing, more for singles and promo stuff. Lately it's been a lot of 7", a few 12". I've got a few theories, because there's a lot of variables when it comes to vinyl, but essentially a good sounding vinyl record can only be cut by an expert (compared to burning CD-R's), and that's a big part of why vinyl records generally sound better.
From a technical viewpoint, they can literally have more detail in them than a 16bit CD, so ideally the vinyl would be actually cut (the laquer cutting would be done by an expert) from a high res (source), or an analog master tape.
If we're mastering for vinyl, we don't actually cut the laquers here but we know who does, and that's a very highly quality controlled process, and we'll send them a high res mastered file, and I'll do certain things to really help retain that quality. For example, there will be no loudness processing done for the vinyl, cos it's a different universe and it just doesn't need it. Clipping... literally clipping a signal will make it very difficult for the cutter to work properly so, it's going to have distortion and all sorts of problems (if clipping occurs).
That Audio Guy: I've also heard that phase becomes much more of an issue than what digital has, is that a bit of a myth or is it not?
Adam Dempsey: Yeah, the greatest issue with vinyl is to make something that, for a certain speed and diameter of a record, each side has an optimum length, and if it fits within that length, you will generally get a good cut. I think there is a lot of over thinking, but generally also if your bottom end is essentially mono, you're good to go. We'll check for all that sort of stuff, and again, if there's any major issues we'll ask for a remix, or help the client address those issues.
Like I said, we love music and we don't want to get bogged down in surgery. We're not, ideally, here to do surgery.
That Audio Guy: We were mentioning, before, that you deal with a lot of lower end bands, a lot of home mixes, especially with the prevalance of in the box type mixing, the explosion of m-audio stuff, and the availabilty of technology. Those guys bringing in their mixes, especially with a lot of them having less than ideal monitoring environments, and also mixing on cans, do you find that mixing from stems can be a lot easier in that scenario? Or would you literally prefer to grab a stereo track, and then go from there, or what do you prefer, especially for your lower end clients, and people with less of an idea? what would you prefer them to bring in?
Adam Dempsey: We do master from stems a bit, I've done a few lately, but I prefer a commitment to a stereo mix. If we're mastering from stems it does add to the time, it adds to the cost and generally it's the producer or the artist's decision in the end. And it's another fix, it's a work-around, so if something's not quite right and there is a stems version that we can work from then it's good to have that option, but I find it more fun to say "this is the mix" and if the mix has been worked on and has been made as good as it can be, then we can work from that and hopefully not have to do too much, but we can work from stems if the client has the time and the budget.
That Audio Guy: This is a difficult question to answer, but for.... say i'm a client, and I've got a track, and I come to you and I say "Adam, master this for me"... how much do the lower end bands need to budget for mastering? Because I was always told that whatever you spend in recording a track, you should actually allow the same for mastering. Is that a myth? Because essentially you are setting the final EQ, you are setting the final compresson level, you are polishing the entire thing off. What is your philosophy on that?
Adam Dempsey: We find our clients appreciate having an all-inclusive cost, so for us, we're focussed on the kind of service that we offer. We don't like to bog people down in watching the clock and having hourly rates and that sort of stuff. I offer discounts for RRR and PBS subscribers. I began by working in radio, and I always want to support independant media and independant artists so, we're pretty flexible when it comes down to it, in terms of cost. You do need to budget for it. I'm seeing that, increasingly, mastering is more important because of the variance in peoples' monitoring environments they're working in.
Hopefully if you're working from home in a home studio you actually spend some time listening to your favorite music in that environment, not just the projects you're working on. Get to know your monitoring that well with your favorite music. Clock up the hours listening to that stuff and that's going to become your reference point, and make it easier to make decisions.
Essentially we're talking about budgets. Give yourself the time. Don't book your launch when you haven't even finished mixing and hopefully everyone that you bring in to be involved in the process will be able to work at a greater pace and get you even better results.
Budgeting for mastering is essential, if you want some direct tips I would say: Record, overdub, get some time/space away from it and come back fresh. Mix. Get some time away from it. Complete the mix and keep referencing if need be. Then book your mastering. That will generally rule out most issues, and it's more fun and you will enjoy the process!
We are responsible for the final presentation of the sound, it doesn't neccesarily mean we have to process things. It's an assesment, and it's as much about what doesn't need doing as what does, and it's more enjoyable – the better it is when it comes in, the better it will be when it goes out. That makes us look good and the artist look good.
That Audio Guy: Absolutely! I think we've covered pretty much everything is there anything else you wanted to cover?
Adam Dempsey: Well I think this couch has to be the best in town as well!
That Audio Guy: The coffee is great!
Adam Dempsey: It's a pretty relaxed vibe. We're a team, we've all got the same service work ethic, we're pretty flexible with our hours and our time, and anything we can do to help clients understand the process, or to help them with their mixes... my background was in mixing as well, everything from running cables and all that sort of stuff, and then I got into mastering, so...
That Audio Guy: We've all worked for gig power at one stage or another
Adam Dempsey: Yeah, well for me it was some OB's for Channel 10 and some boom stuff for Crawfords (Productions), so it helps having done the hard yards, and I initially saw mastering as a way of getting into mixing, and discovered that the subtleties and the details of mastering is really where it was at for me, and the end process, and that it's the kind of "celebratory" stage of an artist's work.
That Audio Guy: I guess it's the sitting back on the couch and enjoying what you have actually created, and in one of the most amazing (mastering) rooms I have ever stepped into. I've been to Edensound several times, I've seen a few different mastering studios. This is definitely one of the best laid out studios around, and it's really really nice and comfortable, it's not clinical.
Adam Dempsey: Yeah, it's "homely".
That Audio Guy: And essentially you're going to spend a fair bit of time in here.
Adam Dempsey: It's a home away from home, we're pretty chilled out and there is no black art or weird stuff going on that's going to leave people mystified, we're here because we love doing what we do.
Adam and Jack at Deluxe Mastering thank That Audio Guy for dropping by and for his support, and are happy to extend a special 10% discount offer to members of thataudioguy.net for professional mastering. Simply let us know at the time of booking.
www.deluxemastering.com
www.myspace.com/adamdempsey
1. On tape machines, azimuth refers to the angle between the tape head(s) and direction of tape travel. For examples of how this sounds, please refer to the audio on: www.npr.org/euonline/members/continui/fieldrecordinfaq/azimuthf.wav |
